THE LAZARIS MATERIAL

Question: Lazaris characterizes the Liminal in terms of chaos, order, the Elements and vulnerability. Would you discuss what is meant by order, both imprisoning and liberating, as well the elements, both wild and wonderful?

JACH:

To me there are so many layers or levels to the Liminal, and each seems to have similar defining characteristics.

Chaos ... though I don't think any of us really understand it, we all seem to have a familiarity with the term that allows us to feel comfortable with the concept. And the Liminal, that which is the "in between," does have chaos ... uncertainty, confusion, unknown ... Each term seems to apply when thinking of chaos (for me at least). I think Lazaris includes "order" in the description as the counterbalance to chaos. In a way, I suppose it (order) represents the opposite end of the continuum to chaos.

Within the Liminal, our personal beliefs and attitudes can impose an order to the chaos. Our personal beliefs and attitudes can be imprisoning. Now, when I write of beliefs, for example, I am meaning the obvious beliefs of which we are conscious. But I also mean the not-so-obvious beliefs of which we are not yet conscious. I also mean beliefs that are pre-structural and pre-conceptual. In that, I mean beliefs that exist outside of space/time or beyond it, and that exist before existence. [vbg]

I think of one of the Orbs of Mystery, for example ... "being before it is."

We have beliefs (maybe there is a better word) that do not have words and that have existed before existence. There is no way for us to define these beliefs or to know what they are, but they are there.

In the Liminal, there is chaos, and in the Liminal there is the impact of our beliefs that are pre-conceptual. Such beliefs impose an order that can be imprisoning. And in the same realm ... pre-conceptual and pre-structural ... there are liberating beliefs. Along similar lines, our attitudes, born of our beliefs, can be, likewise, imprisoning and liberating. While delving into the Liminal, we confront and then hopefully encounter the chaos, and we also confront the "order" that imprisons and/or liberates us. That's part of being in the Liminal, I think. I hope that makes sense, Holly.

Now, you also ask about the wild and wonderful of the elements. I think that probably should be the wild and wonderful of the Elements, as I think it has a lot more to do with the nature of Nature than it has to do with the weather. [s]

In the Liminal, the energies of Air, Fire, Water, and Earth (metaphorical energies) can be wild ... unpredictable, uncontrollable, etc. I think it's the unpredictability and the uncontrollability of the Elements that makes them seem wild to us. So, it's not wild like an animal; it's wild like "something I cannot control." [s]

In the Liminal, the Elements do not necessarily conform to how they function within space/time and beyond space/time. So they can be wild. And they can be wonderful. I like what Lazaris says about being patient. Most people who pop into the Liminal confront the chaos and panic. They try to exit that Liminal as fast as possible. Recoiling or revolting, they attempt to get out of there. But, as Lazaris points out, if we will be patient and endure the dark chaos, then the light chaos comes.

Well, I think it is the same with the Elements and with the order. We will confront the wild of the Elements and the imprisoning of the order, but if we are patient ... if we wait, if we will look a bit more closely, if we will listen a bit harder, if we will hang in there and endure the ... what? humiliation of wildness and of order ...then we will find the wonderful of those Elements, and we will find that the order can set us free.

For me, a lot of dealing with the Liminal is ...

First, allowing it to be there: Allowing it to be real.

Second, knowing its characteristics whether it is a very fleeting and private Liminal or a more archetypal one.

Third, being open to the possibility of chaos, order, the Elements, and the exposure to vulnerability.

And fourthly, focusing with an eye -- maybe more than an eye -- on being patient. The results have been amazing for me.

When working with Lazaris, and when working with the uncharted stuff we are currently working with, the Liminal plays an important role. I know that Lazaris talked of it a lot this last weekend because of the relationship of the Liminal to dealing with genuine opportunity. As we are now enlightened and Lazaris is daring to talk about that (and we are courageous enough to listen) the Liminal looms before us. But I find that it is more than a step in a process, though it surely is that. It is more than a means to an end, though it is that as well. I have found that exploring the Liminal can stand alone as a viable working of magic and as a substantially valuable tool of reality creation.

A technique that I have found very valuable is to go into the Liminal and to “weather its storms" and to "stand tall to its threats," and when I have passed through the dark, the imprisoning, and the wild, and have accepted my "stupid" weaknesses, in the light, in the freedom, in the wonderful, and in my strength:

I speak my desire (claiming magic) ...

I voice my desire (mind magic and sonic magic)...

I visualize my desire ...

And then I claim it all over again by releasing it into the Liminal.

This is akin to working with my unconscious, but it has its own distinctive nature. I find it miraculous ... not all the time, but enough of the time. [s]

Question: What do you mean by "going into" the Liminal?

JACH:

The Liminal is a word that means threshold. It is a word that is used to describe the "between." Between two rooms ... there is a door and between one room and the other room, within that doorway, there is a threshold. That's the Liminal.

When you stand upon that threshold within the doorway, you are not in this room and you are not in that room. You are not in any room, you are on the threshold and in the Liminal.

Following this analogy a bit further, a foyer is not the Liminal. Well, the dining room may be on one side and living room may be on the other side and the foyer is between. But the foyer is a room, it is not the "no-room" between rooms. [s]

So when you stand on that threshold and are not in this room and not in that room and are in no-room between this room, that room, or any room, you are in the Liminal.

Space-time ... There is space between space. Better said, there is space and there is not-space between space. There is time and there is not-time. So we can do out-of-body work and travel to a different space/time or even beyond space/time There is also the possibility to enter that not-space that is not in space and not beyond space, but between space. We can also step between time where we are not in this time or that time or in any time and we are not beyond it either. We are between time. That's the Liminal.

During this last weekend in Orlando, Lazaris made a nifty reference to the majesty that has always been within us. He said that the majestic has always been there. It is a part of who we once were and of who we will be again. Then he digressed a moment and said something about how we live in the Liminal between who we once were and who we will be once again. And our lives, like the Liminal, are filled with chaos, order, the Elements wild and wonderful, and during our lifetime ... during this lifetime somewhere between who we once were and who we will be again, we are continually exposed to our vulnerabilities. Though he was speaking metaphorically, it was a fun point to ponder.

Lazaris does refer to this time as the Liminal years between the world that was and the world that is now destined to be. And during this decade and the next, we are especially dealing with dark and light chaos, imprisoning and liberating order, wild and wonderful Elements, and with our vulnerabilities.

Anyway, that's the Liminal. [s]

How to enter it? Well, we each have our techniques, I suppose. During the culminating weekend (of 2002), we found our way to the glow of our enlightenment and then leapt beyond that glow into the Liminal. However, a generic way [s] would be to enter an altered state, and generate the resonance of chaos. Imagine yourself in total, utter, complete chaos. Imagine and feel it. Also, sense being totally imprisoned in something beyond your grasp of understanding. Imagine and then feel it. Now, in the midst of total chaos and complete imprisonment, let the Elements (air, fire, water, earth) become outrageous and wild. And in all this mess, sense your weaknesses ... where you are vulnerable and weak. Ugh ... it's not a pretty place. These images are easier to imagine for most people because, as human beings, we have had lots of practice imaging dark chaos and being imprisoned emotionally and mentally. So, in this not so pretty place that can be frighteningly familiar to some of us, wait. Be still. And the dark will give way to light, and you can step out of the prisons; the wild can become wonderful and suddenly you can see your strengths ... you can expose yourself and see yourself vulnerable and strong. That's how you enter it.

In that state, I work my magic to create something I desire as I briefly outlined above. ...